On the latest installment of SirLinksalot’s SEO Podcast, hosts Chris and Nick are joined by none other than Steve Toth, renowned as the brains behind SEO Notebook, the visionary founder of SEO IRL, and a distinguished SEO consultant. During the episode, Steve delves into his wealth of experience, sharing insights garnered from managing a site with a staggering 1.8 million in traffic, his pioneering approach to verticalized content clusters, and the innovative integration of ChatGPT into his workflows. If you believe you have something valuable to contribute to our podcast or wish to suggest a guest, be sure to visit our podcast discovery page.
What is your typical daily routine at work like? Content Clusters and ChatGPT
A significant portion of my time is dedicated to research and development. I engage with a select group of discerning clients, offering a blend of consulting and ongoing services, necessitating the demonstration of tangible value. Much of this value is derived from leveraging automation techniques, primarily through Python scripting and interfacing with diverse APIs, to scale our strategies across the client portfolio. My team is comprised of a dynamic mix of freelancers and full-time employees, typically numbering between 5 to 7 individuals at any given moment.
“Do you long for the corporate world?” Content Clusters and ChatGPT
I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Freshbooks, particularly relishing the opportunity to work independently. It was an invaluable experience, allowing me to concentrate solely on SEO without the typical corporate distractions. Working in-house provided a deep dive into one website, facilitating significant learning and growth, especially for those starting out in SEO. Additionally, I had been side hustling during my tenure at Freshbooks, which served as valuable practice before venturing into my own business.
Do you conduct your own research and development (R&D)?
On one occasion, during a discussion with my clients, we brainstormed strategies to maximize the acquisition of featured snippets. We devised a script that systematically searched for each featured snippet, examined corresponding keywords, and documented all relevant meta-descriptions currently ranking. This enabled us to pinpoint precisely the adjustments needed to secure the featured snippet, as well as identify the websites currently occupying those positions. Implementing this script significantly enhanced our capacity to tailor our content for increased snippet rankings.
My journey into SEO began before Freshbooks.
In 2010, I joined a web development company as a copywriter during the rise of blogging. I took the initiative to establish and manage the company’s blog, delving into keyword optimization to enhance its visibility. This experience led me to transition into an agency role in 2011, where I initially served as a social media manager. Working closely with the SEO team, I honed my skills in optimizing content for search engines until 2017. Following this, I spent a year at another agency before joining Freshbooks.
What initiated your journey into content creation?
In high school, I made a lighthearted decision to step away from math, much to the surprise of my parents. Instead, I embraced my passion for writing, a choice that ultimately contributed to the success of SEO Notebook. For me, writing is akin to solving a puzzle; it’s a delightful challenge to craft concise and impactful pieces of communication.
Identify Your SEO Archetype: Mechanic, Socializer, or Collector?
I possess a blend of qualities from both Type 1 and Type 2 personalities. While excelling in on-page tasks, I firmly grasp the importance of networking, recognizing that one’s connections are instrumental in determining one’s success, regardless of my introverted tendencies.
What is meant by “verticalized content clusters”?
“Verticalization” refers to targeting specific groups within a keyword segment. For instance, with Freshbooks, our primary keyword was “invoice template,” but we also catered to graphic designers, contractors, and freelance writers with dedicated pages. This strategy allowed us to extend the reach of the keyword across various demographics. To assess the viability of verticalizing keywords, try entering the keyword followed by “for” in the Google search bar, such as “invoice template for…” or “contract template for…”. This will help gauge the potential relevance of those keywords. Additionally, you can use tools like Ahrefs to analyze the search history of a keyword. If a website has consistently bid on a keyword over time, it suggests profitability. If unsure, consider running a paid search campaign to test conversion rates before investing in extensive content creation.
Utilizing Google directly rather than relying on keyword research tools, I prefer to cluster keywords for big corporate clients
I prefer using Google over generic tools for keyword research because relying solely on widely-used tools often leads to targeting the same keywords as everyone else. While I do utilize on-page tools like SurferSEO for optimizing content, when it comes to brainstorming topics and conducting keyword research, I seek out a variety of tools to gain diverse insights. While on-page tools are valuable, it’s crucial to offer unique value in your content to stand out amidst competition. Simply replicating the information found in the top 10 search results diminishes user experience and reduces the likelihood of ranking well. To succeed, it’s important to differentiate your content and provide fresh perspectives that add genuine value to readers and search engines alike.
How do you create content? Content Clusters and ChatGPT
Begin with an overview of the task: provide a structured outline detailing the main points to be covered. Utilize ChatGPT to offer guidance to writers, directing them on what content should be included in each subsequent paragraph under the designated headings. Equip the writer with comprehensive information, drawing from various sources, to enrich their writing. Offer unique insights and details for each section to enhance the quality and depth of the content. The objective is to empower writers with the necessary tools and resources to effectively fulfill the brief, albeit not necessarily as subject matter experts, but with the capability to proficiently execute the task at hand.
Was link building conducted for Freshbooks around DR 85, focusing on the parent page or each individual template page?
The distribution of our link-building efforts was primarily focused on directing 80% of the links to the main invoice template page, while the remaining 20% were allocated to secondary and tertiary pages, including the money page. Managing such a large site posed challenges in employing techniques like HARO and other strategies for homepage building. While we didn’t actively pursue homepage link-building, the site garnered a significant number of natural homepage links, mitigating any potential impact on our overall strategy.
To what extent did you utilize anchor texts aggressively?
We adopted a conservative approach, avoiding excessive exact-match keywords. Instead, we diversified by adding words around the keyword. Additionally, I maintained a spreadsheet cross-referencing existing anchor texts from an Ahrefs export to prevent repetition. The goal is to provide users with insight into the content beyond the link and to optimize referral traffic generation.
Link-building criteria at FreshBooks
We had a generous budget at Freshbooks, allowing us to engage with legitimate companies. We seized the opportunity to secure backlinks from authoritative websites, prioritizing domain and page relevance above all else. Our focus wasn’t on acquiring links from sites with a Domain Rating (DR) of 20; instead, we aimed for DR 60+ and even higher, occasionally accepting links from sites with a DR as low as 200 if they provided a high-quality guest post. Depending on the value we perceived, we were willing to allocate up to $1000 per link.
Main hurdles encountered while establishing clusters across diverse websites.
When you’ve secured client buy-in and they allocate appropriate staffing to the project, things tend to run smoothly. However, this ideal scenario doesn’t always materialize. In some cases, clients may have writers who work at a slower pace or lack the necessary skills. While I consistently offer recommendations for writers, there may be instances where the client doesn’t follow through on their end.
Planning regular content clusters: Approach and strategy adjustments.
You can leverage ChatGPT to generate content clusters and provide comprehensive overviews or step-by-step walkthroughs on various topics. This process enables the creation of a topical map, identifying potential subjects that merit dedicated pages. Additionally, analyzing competitors’ content can offer insights into relevant areas for non-verticalized clusters.
“In the past year or so, which note from your SEO Notebook newsletter do you believe has been the most underrated?”
I’ve recently published a fresh note on leveraging Information Gain. This approach involves searching for your target keyword on Google, along with modifiers like “file-type PowerPoint” or “file-type PDF doc.” By doing so, you can uncover unique insights contained within these specific file types, which may not be readily available on typical webpages. This method enables you to gather distinctive information to enrich your site’s content, setting it apart from others.
Opinions on the viability of newsletters as a business model.
Executing a successful marketing strategy requires unwavering consistency. Regular posting is crucial; if you miss even a single week, your audience may forget about your brand altogether. Throughout nearly four years of managing SEO Notebook, I’ve remained steadfast in my commitment to deliver fresh content every week. Despite the inevitable ups and downs of life, this dedication to consistency has remained a top priority, ensuring continuous engagement with our audience.
AI: Blessing or Curse?
We’re currently uncertain about how changes in search behavior will unfold. Some individuals may stick to their current search habits until they see others making changes. Then there are those, like us, who recognize the potential of asking ChatGPT directly instead of resorting to traditional search engines for recommendations, such as planning a vacation to Austin. While we’re aware of this option, it remains unclear whether the broader population is familiar with it. Google is motivated to keep pace with competitors like Bing without risking a significant loss of their own search traffic. Many users are oblivious to the fact that they often click on ads, let alone considering alternative search engines for their queries.
Primary Applications of AI in Task Execution
Using ChatGPT is an effective method for generating schemas efficiently. By providing a series of prompts, users can refine their desired outcome until they reach the desired result. This iterative process allows for the creation of a single, concise prompt that effectively captures the intended schema.
Opinions on AI-generated content Content Clusters and ChatGPT
In our approach to client projects, we exercise caution when incorporating AI-generated content. When we do utilize AI, it’s typically in conjunction with a human writer who supplements the material with factual information, quotes, and refining sentences to enhance readability and ensure it doesn’t come across as overtly generated by AI. We refrain from relying solely on AI for extensive content production tasks such as drafting briefs.
Analysis of the March 23rd core update: Insights and opinions.
I personally haven’t experienced any effects from it. However, we’ll need to wait and observe what consequences it may bring.
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